A fascinating CCLiveChat with Detective Ken Lang. No matter what technical difficulty presented itself, the chatters have proven to be one heck of a team! We made sure all our tweets could be read on Twitter, TweetChat, TweetDeck and beyond even if those programs did not cooperate with us!
So let me thank here: Miriam Said, Tom LeVeque, Shannon Outland, Marguerite Ashton, Adam Smallbone and Natasha Phillips!
We covered so many areas that you have to read the verbatim thread below but ten highlights here:
- Oil based clay is best
- Not every medical examiner’s office has its own forensic artists in-house
- Digital skull reconstruction can miss small details on the skull
- One clay skull reconstruction can take between 40-60 hours
- To find the sex of bones found the pelvis and the sharp ridges of the eye brows are examined
- Most difficult: to get the shape of the face and the eyes right
- Three types of skulls: Caucasoid, Negroid and Mongoloid. Most difficult are the mixed races!
- Human eyeballs measure about 23mm and are fully grown already in infants
- Landmarks on the skull are used to decide shape of eyelids. They connect to a grove in the orbits. Teeth show through their wear where the lips rested.
- Nose is determined by race as well: 5mm past each side of the nasal appature for Caucasians, 10mm for Africans
Want to know more? Read the verbatim thread below.
Cheers!
| Vidocq_CC | Good afternoon, folks! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:01:19 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | Today we have a special chat with @detkenlang who will discuss 3D skull reconstruction with us, bear with us while he logs on #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:04:29 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | RT @Vidocq_CC: @DetKenLang Not sure what is going on here but you dont show up #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:05:15 +0000 |
| NickyOutland | If you sign into TweetChat, it puts the hashtag in for you #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:05:37 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | @DetKenLang How did you get started as a forensic artist? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:11:13 +0000 |
| TRLeVeque | @DetKenLang Adapt and overcome...always something to have fun with, but yes, frustrating. #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:17:13 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | @msashton_writer Hi and welcome! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:18:30 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: I've had about 80 cases - mostly composites, some post mortem drawings, 1 official skull recon... we do sculpt practice cases #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:19:13 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: let me start throwing stuff out, I've been a forensic artist (FA) since 2000 #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:19:18 +0000 |
| TRLeVeque | Impressive...http://t.co/1ciMihP0. @DetKenLang TY for your service! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:19:47 +0000 |
| TRLeVeque | @DetKenLang Right off your TW feed...#cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:20:27 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | @DetKenLang I'm RTing from your Twitter stream so it shows on TweetChat...:) #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:20:30 +0000 |
| ADAMSMALLBONE | @DetKenLang I have half a window on your feed and half on TweetChat - can see what you're tweeting 🙂 #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:21:05 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | @ADAMSMALLBONE Awesome, Hi Adam! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:21:38 +0000 |
| TRLeVeque | How successful have the composites been in IDs? @DetKenLang #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:22:04 +0000 |
| NickyOutland | TY @miriamsaid #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:22:21 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | I am also curious to know whether special clay is used. #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:22:58 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @TRLeVeque there is about a 30% hit (ID) rate in FA... #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:23:00 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | Just gonna fire off some Qs so @detkenlang can aswer when they show up #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:23:27 +0000 |
| TRLeVeque | RT @DetKenLang: @TRLeVeque there is about a 30% hit (ID) rate in FA... #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:23:36 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | Do all medical examiners' offices have forensic artists on board? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:23:48 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC oil based clay is the best - we use the real skull and need to take the clay off after photo's... #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:24:09 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC unfortunately not - it's not unusual to FedEx a skull across country to different Forensic Artists #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:24:43 +0000 |
| msashton_writer | RT @DetKenLang: I've had about 80 cases - mostly composites, some post mortem drawings, 1 official skull recon... we do sculpt practice cases #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:24:44 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | What works better in your opinion: clay or digital reconstruction? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:24:46 +0000 |
| TRLeVeque | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC unfortunately not - it's not unusual to FedEx a skull across country to different Forensic Artists #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:25:27 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | Is it true there is insufficient tissue thickness data to cover all races? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:26:00 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC clay by far - digital recon isn't far enough advanced to see the small details in a skull #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:26:10 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: an interesting fact - the human eyeball measures 25mm and is already full grown in infants #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:26:44 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC we use to use Rhine's data which was sparse - we are now using Staphan's data - 1000's of case in a database #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:27:25 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | Has Ken ever had to reconstruct a childs idenity? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:27:53 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @DetKenLang that should read Dr. Stephan... I'll blame my fat fingures! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:28:12 +0000 |
| SobukiRa | RT @miriamsaid: Has Ken ever had to reconstruct a childs idenity? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:28:35 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: we just received Dr. Stephan's info this past month at the IAI conference - his studies are being databased #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:29:28 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | @SobukiRa Thanks, Buki! We have a bit of tech trouble! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:29:41 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: I've never recon'd a child - those skeletons are rare (thank God) #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:30:07 +0000 |
| TRLeVeque | @DetKenLang Avg industry cost to retain FA services in a case? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:31:13 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | Ken, how do you reconstruct facial features, such as lips, eyebrows and eye lids..is it a best guess? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:31:57 +0000 |
| ADAMSMALLBONE | @DetKenLang How long did your one official skull recon take? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:31:59 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | Is there one standard used worldwide for 3D skull construction? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:32:17 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @TRLeVeque wow! good quest... with product and man hours sever 100 for an in house artist - the going rate is about $3000 #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:33:44 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | @DetKenLang Just some other facts - we use a set of formulas for calculating the projection of a nose (Dr Wynn) #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:34:16 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @AdamSmallbone I like to take my time, 40 - 60 hours easy #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:35:09 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | @detkenlang Is there one standard used worldwide for 3D skull construction? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:36:04 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC Betty P. Gatliff, who recon King Tut, was the foremost instructor - nothing concrete so u get a variety of techniques #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:36:19 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: a lot of the bone structures tell us much about the face - we also use evidence at the scene (clothes) #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:36:24 +0000 |
| TRLeVeque | Thought would be more. @DetKenLang Any particular element drive agencies to seek further ID, or if othr tests r unable to ID? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:36:48 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC Betty P. Gatliff, who recon King Tut, was the foremost instructor - nothing concrete so u get a variety of techniques #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:36:54 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | @detkenlang How do you reconstruct facial features, such as lips, eyebrows and eye lids..is it a best guess? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:38:17 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @TRLeVeque we start with fingerprints, then move to FA (sketches) then DNA can take up to 10 wks - unknowns are entered in NCIC #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:38:58 +0000 |
| TRLeVeque | RT @DetKenLang: @TRLeVeque we start with fingerprints, then move to FA (sketches) then DNA can take up to 10 wks - unknowns are entered in NCIC #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:39:11 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC nope - there are landmarks on the skull - for ex. the eyelids connect at a grove in the orbits #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:40:20 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC the teeth, through wear, show use where the lips rested #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:40:26 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC we measure 5mm past each side of the nasal appature for caucasions, 10mm for african, to put in nasal app. #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:41:19 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | RT @miriamsaid: RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC the teeth, through wear, show use where the lips rested #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:41:32 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | RT @miriamsaid: RT @DetKenLang: nope - there are landmarks on the skull - for ex. the eyelids connect at a grove in the orbits #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:41:52 +0000 |
| TRLeVeque | @DetKenLang Great mix of teamwork, science, and art! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:42:14 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC we use an average for the eyebrows - no way to know if someone had a uni-brow 😉 #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:42:30 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC nope - there are landmarks on the skull - for ex. the eyelids connect at a grove in the orbits #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:42:45 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC the teeth, through wear, show use where the lips rested #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:42:49 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC we measure 5mm past each side of the nasal appature for caucasions, 10mm for african, to put in nasal app. #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:42:56 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | Has Ken ever had to focus on ageing a reconstruction for a Jane or John Doe to what they would look like now? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:44:03 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @TRLeVeque absolutely - I work with an anthropologist from the ME's office, use quite a bit of math #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:44:20 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC has pics of my recon I did last August on his website - she had a huge "hair mat" #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:45:04 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: so with her, I gave her lots of hair in the sculpture... #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:45:38 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | @detkenlang: see pics here http://t.co/ywqX6oYm #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:46:11 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: teeth is really important for us -but when they're missing it's hard - small animals sometime carry of small bones #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:47:28 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | @detkenlang What difficulties do you foresee for the future as $3000 isn't cheap per case. #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:47:41 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | If anyone has questions for @detkenlang, grab him now! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:48:21 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: for an FA the 2 most important features to nail is the face shape and eyes - studies show that's what people look at most... #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:48:31 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC most agencies contact agencies who have FA's and get it done for free... the $3,000 is for freelancers #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:49:06 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | @detkenlang Has Ken ever had to focus on ageing a reconstruction for a Jane or John Doe to what they would look like now? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:49:30 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: shoot out the questions now - I have another appt at 1pm #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:49:42 +0000 |
| TRLeVeque | @Vidocq_CC You would be surprised...avg $1K out here for simple DNA cases. Would love free, but seems not too bad. #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:49:43 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | What inspired Ken to write the book Walking Among The Dead? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:50:51 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | @TRLeVeque Wow and in this economy with so many Does till unidentified! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:51:10 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | @miriamsaid Use his Twitter handle so he has easy access to the Qs #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:51:32 +0000 |
| TRLeVeque | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC I do age progressions, but most cases are photoshop by Nat'l Ctr for Missing Exploited Children - #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:51:36 +0000 |
| NickyOutland | Thank you so much to @DetKenLang for the interesting chat. I now know that being an FA is as much science as art. #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:51:39 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC I do age progressions, but most cases are photoshop by Nat'l Ctr for Missing Exploited Children - #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:52:14 +0000 |
| msashton_writer | @DetKenLang ~ If the skull is a jane/john doe can u tell by certain features of the skull what their race is? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:52:19 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: the age progression cases I do have been for homicide victim's families want to see what they would've looked like #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:52:19 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | @Vidocq_CC Will do... #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:52:35 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | RT @NickyOutland: Thank you so much to @DetKenLang for the interesting chat. I now know that being FA is as much science as art. #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:52:52 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @Vidocq_CC yep - but if we get a chance at a case we usually don't turn it down #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:52:56 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @NickyOutland thank you... #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:53:00 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | RT @msashton_writer: @DetKenLang ~ If the skull is a jane/john doe can u tell by certain features of the skull what their race is? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:53:28 +0000 |
| TRLeVeque | Ken @DetKenLang TYVM for the chat. Interesting & valuable field. Will have to check ur writings! http://t.co/pdgcAVGh #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:53:43 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: FACT: post mortem drawings are the most difficult - usually too much trauma #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:54:02 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | RT @DetKenLang: FACT: post mortem drawings are the most difficult - usually too much trauma #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:54:35 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | @TRLeVeque Thanks Tom for being here! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:54:55 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @msashton_writer yes - there are 3 catagories caucasiod, negroid, mongaloid - but with mix-races its getting difficult #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:55:41 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @msashton_writer there are specific features we look for on the skull as well as evidence at the scene... #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:55:46 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @msashton_writer a sharp brow ridge helps distinct bewteen male/female #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:55:54 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | RT @DetKenLang: @msashton_writer yes - there are 3 catagories caucasiod, negroid, mongaloid - but with mix-races its getting difficult #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:56:06 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: @msashton_writer pelvic bone structure in the big factor in determining sex especially if the female has given birth #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:56:29 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | @DetKenLang What was the inspiration behind you writing your books? #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:57:10 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: thank you everyone for bearing with my log in issues - for those interested in my book http://t.co/DiFkK8TB #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:57:26 +0000 |
| NickyOutland | RT @DetKenLang: thank you everyone for bearing with my log in issues - for those interested in my book http://t.co/DiFkK8TB #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:58:21 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: speaking up for those who could not speak for themselves and ensuring justice. Someone need to tell their story! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:58:29 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | A huge thank you to @detkenlang for sharing his expertise with us! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:58:45 +0000 |
| TRLeVeque | RT @Vidocq_CC: A huge thank you to @detkenlang for sharing his expertise with us! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:58:52 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | Some work from @detkenlang can be found on DCC and of course, his own website! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:59:20 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: you're welcome - and thank you for having me... #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:59:36 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | @detkenlang: Thank you for everything and happy weekend! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:59:37 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | Recap of this chat later on DCC, folks! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:59:50 +0000 |
| ADAMSMALLBONE | Thank you, Ken! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 16:59:51 +0000 |
| NickyOutland | Great chat today! Thanks for pulling this together @Vidocq_CC. Nice to meet all of you. #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 17:00:03 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | RT @DetKenLang: I'm signing off! Thanks again everyone... #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 17:00:50 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | Thanks all, just follow @detkenlang and you can always tweet him more questions! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 17:01:03 +0000 |
| Vidocq_CC | Vidster is signing off! BBL!!! #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 17:01:18 +0000 |
| miriamsaid | What an awesome chat and thanks to everyone for joining in. Fantastic questions asked and massive thank you to @DetKenLang #cclivechat | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 17:02:43 +0000 |
| msashton_writer | @DetKenLang ~ Thank you for the #cclivechat and @Vidocq_CC for hosting. | Fri, 16 Sep 2011 17:03:03 +0000 |